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Old 07-10-2009, 16:32   #31 (permalink)
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So what else is the point?
It would likely stop them doing it again.
It would lessen their carbon footprint, (well in the long run, and depending on how you top 'em).
It could be used as a boogeyman example to scare very young children into behaving better.

All these would result in an increase in the greater good, a good thing, doncha think?
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Old 07-10-2009, 16:39   #32 (permalink)
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Quote:
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It would likely stop them doing it again.
It would lessen their carbon footprint, (well in the long run, and depending on how you top 'em).
It could be used as a boogeyman example to scare very young children into behaving better.

All these would result in an increase in the greater good, a good thing, doncha think?
Meet the boys who might have a different opinion.

Sergey Golovkin
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Old 07-10-2009, 17:08   #33 (permalink)
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It would likely stop them doing it again.
Hard to argue that I guess, but chopping off their arms and legs would be just as effective - if a little untidy.

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It would lessen their carbon footprint, (well in the long run, and depending on how you top 'em).
A novel idea, 'save the planet, kill a crim'. But why stop at murderers? To have a proper climate (climatic?) affect we should apply it to motorists with more than 3 points on their licence (I'm being a bit liberal on this one I know - but I do believe in giving crims at least one chance; even no-good, bastards like drivers). Go get 'em Gatso; Gas 'em.

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It could be used as a boogeyman example to scare very young children into behaving better.
If we hung, drew and quartered them in the High Street Shopping Mall and draped their entrails in the windows of HMV, Primark and BHS it would work quite well I expect.

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All these would result in an increase in the greater good, a good thing, doncha think?
Yes, I just didn't think it through.
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Old 07-10-2009, 17:39   #34 (permalink)
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Hard to argue that I guess, but chopping off their arms and legs would be just as effective - if a little untidy.
The chopping of limbs would entail an army of 'carers' with the attendant bureaucracy and cost, as well as a surge in pedestrian deaths as crazed, criminal quadriplegics in adapted mobility carts mowed down the unwary and less nimble. Top 'em.

Quote:
A novel idea, 'save the planet, kill a crim'. But why stop at murderers? To have a proper climate (climatic?) affect we should apply it to motorists with more than 3 points on their licence (I'm being a bit liberal on this one I know - but I do believe in giving crims at least one chance; even no-good, bastards like drivers). Go get 'em Gatso; Gas 'em.
Please talk quietly so as not to awaken and excite the Surrey Saloon Bar Bigot who might adapt this idea as his own.

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If we hung, drew and quartered them in the High Street Shopping Mall and draped their entrails in the windows of HMV, Primark and BHS it would work quite well I expect.
Window Dressing a la mode anglais. I foresee a global audience and a boost to the recognition of Brit Creativity not seen since Tony Blair first snogged Damien Hirst to kickstart Cool Britannia.


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Yes, I just didn't think it through.
You will, cjd, you will.

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Old 12-10-2009, 23:54   #35 (permalink)
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I dunno what the solution is tbh, but I think that ALL young people are branded from an earlyish age, and they tend to live up to what society expects of them... so maybe our perception needs changed a little.

I grew up in a village outside of a roughish town. I have grown up in what might be termed a 'violent' area, but even amongst that I have seen respect on a level rarely seen amongst the areas I see highlighted on TV nowadays.

I live with my elderly father, and I park my van each night at the edge of a community area which is frequented by a lot of the teenagers, particularly after dark (there is a childs park close by, so it tends to be younger children early on). It is a dark area, and quite quiet. I will happily park my van there, safe in the knowledge that nothing will ever happen to it. I am someone who is prone to not locking things, and have never had any trouble.

I know every one of these teenagers by name, having seen them all grow up from youngsters, I kinda know what most/all are capable of. I see the mischief that a lot of them and any visitors get up to, but I would say that in all my years, I have had trouble personally from very very few. They have their moments, and they cause trouble locally, none are angels really.

They know and respect me for 2 reasons....

1) They know that I will happily walk into a crowd of them and single any one out with a serious underlying threat of violence. I say threat, because I have never really had to show anything other than the threat. One or two of the older ones will have been in local pubs etc at times and seen me dragged into violent situations, of which I tend to hold my own (or take my licking gracefully lol)*.

2) Every last one of them knows that if he/she needed anything (within reason of course, and the law etc), that my door is always open to any single one of them. If one of the younger lads got himself into bother, I have in the past smoothed things over for them, or gave a little advice on best to diffuse a situation. They also know that I will lend them a few bob, if the cause is sensible (and they know not to lie to me in that case, cos the door closes on liars), and it is very infrequent. They also know I will stand in their corner, as long as my lines are not crossed, and I will support and help where I can. I have spoken to authorities on one or two's behalf, and I've bailed a couple out of trouble a few times.

As it is, I can walk past, stop and chat to, or generally banter with all or any of them. I would always call on one of those lads if I had a days work they could do (I used a couple to paint a portion of my new office etc).

So the way I see it, it has to be a mutual respect. I don't treat them like outcasts, and I give them a friendly ear if they need it. But, they also know I have a line, and if they cross it I will happily punish that in whatever manner I see fit. The difference here is, I treat all adults in exactly the same way, so they do not feel in any way treated different or patronised by me.

One thing I always say in defence of these young'uns is... when I grew up in the area we had fields on most sides, and crossing them to the river, etc took us out of the main village and caused the locals less trouble. This generation has seen all sides built up, with industrial areas, etc and new private housing estates. There is absolutely nowhere for them to hang around, so they gather where they can. When they spent a scary amount on a new 'community centre' recently, I wanted to see a separate shelter-type thing built that they could hang out in. Just somewhere for them to gather, even if it was built like a reinforced bus-shelter type of thing.

So maybe we need to look at the world nowadays, and see the changes that have happened since we were teenagers, and see what these kids now have, compared to what we had ourselves....... then cut the wee boogers some slack, and listen to their needs the odd time.

CONCLUSION..........

Punish the really bad ones much more aggressively than we currently do, and reward the good ones a little more often. I reckon we would see a marked improvement in a short period of time.

......................................

Jeez, I have not typed so much since my last effort at incorporation

* that actually makes me sound very rough, and that is far from the truth. Where I live, it is impossible to go out locally every weekend for 20+ years, and not get dragged into some sort of hassle ending in a spectrum of violent outcomes. Here you learn from an early age, it is not good to be a complete pushover.
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Old 14-10-2009, 20:43   #36 (permalink)
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Ferk me Mark, I'll make sure I'm packing if I have to take you on...

The issue is ownership. If people care for their community, their peers, their country and have a sense of self worth they respect where they are and want the best for it, if they don't - you get what we currently see.
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Old 14-10-2009, 22:57   #37 (permalink)
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lol Richard

I agree, look at the news any night at all, and you'll see that it is nigh on impossible to respect any authority at all. The politicians are lying/theiving and getting away with it, the police are slagged and dragged through the mud at every opportunity, criminals are let out onto the streets time and time again, etc, etc.

The young ones are all branded as 'hassle', and nobody looks to address any of their needs.

What else do we expect from them? Is it not the way of all things teenage to rebel and kick up a little fuss when they are ignored? Also, because we ignore them, it is a very safe place for the extreme ones to ply their crazy trade, and others get dragged into situations that could easily have been avoided.

It's up to the leaders of this country to actually take bloody control of it. Punish those responsible for crime, deal with our own internal problems and kick out those not fit to represent us, look towards the kids and see to their needs, and start to take a little pride in our country again..... our pride will lead to their pride, and things will definitely improve.

It's not bloody rocket science, so why do our authorities ignore what is staring them in the face? The only conclusion I can make is.... they don't actually give a toss!
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Old 15-10-2009, 06:26   #38 (permalink)
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They don't give a toss!!
Its blatantly obvious.. they are in it for themselves.

Show me a politician who has come out of it "poor".

Just like you don't see an emaciated priest
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